Sometimes I find the psychology of working with clients interesting or even amusing. I think that, to a large degree, that is the result of the general public not really knowing what the home inspector is looking for. Are we there to straighten the pictures on the wall, or something more significant? It seems like a number of people feel that we are on the lookout for cosmetic issues -- not the case. The kind of situation that amuses me would be like the one described here. These are photos I took several months back at the site of an inspection. I arrived at the house, got out of the truck, and the buyer says: "I am just really anticipating what you are going to say about the roof." Now there is not really any big surprise here, so the client is needlessly waiting for the big news. The fact is, I can tell without even going up there -- but of course I will go up there -- that the roof is shot. It is covered with moss all over and the shingles are brittle and numerous unprofessional repairs have been made. It has a multitude of defects. Sometimes what the home inspector tells the buyer is not going to be too different than what the buyer might intuitively know -- at this house you need to buy a new roof. Thanks for stopping by, Steven L. Smith
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I think clients intuitively know many things, but want verification by experts!
Steve - I find that often inspection issues don't always come as a complete surprise to some buyers.
Steven, sometimes you just have to state the obvious ~ what can I say. I am surprised that you did not send nutsy up there. But then, I guess your customer did not want to listen to his chatter...
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Fact is, in our home inspection contingency, unless the roof leaks, it's not an "automatic new roof" paid for by the seller.
Steven, great post and something we run into fairly regularly. You'd think that they would say something.
Congratulations on the featured blog. It's a short and easy one!
I like to do the preinspection before the home goes on the market so this can be handled or disclosed up front.
Steven,
It is very important to have a thorough and proper inspection.
A court case was just released the other day finding a home inspector liable to a buyer for a less than complete inspection.
The Judge awarded $200,000 even though, the buyer had signed an agreement limiting the inspector's liability to the cost of the report.
Brian
Steven...
I never understand why homeowners don't see the importance of a proper roof. It's what separates the inside from the outside!
Steven:
This was definitely a case of confirming the obvious, but it needed to be done. When you negotiate to have the seller take money off of the price because the property needs a new roof you need to have documentation from a professional. And, I think that photo speaks a thousand words as well.
Would you like some roof with your moss? Talk about a "green" house.
Would you like some roof with your moss? Talk about a "green" house.
Steven - When people want to buy a "roof over their head", and call it home....They want one that works. Congrats on the feature
Thanks. I wish more inspectors, mortgage brokers and other vendors to the industry would post here on Active Rain. Thanks again.
Buyers want validation that they are making a good decision: whether or not to go through with the purchase. Often it's that simple.
I'm going to make an assumption that this buyer is not a first time buyer using FHA financing. He knew it needed a new roof, when he negotiated with the seller, maybe just hoped YOU were going to have a sunnier outlook on it... two three years... and he could put off replacing the roof for awhile.
Or...
Most sellers and many real estate professionals will deny roof leakage occurs unless water is actually pouring in. They are ignorant to the fact that roof leakage is not always blatantly obvious.
Case in point was my Saturday afternoon inspection where the living room wall was stained and verified to be wet with a moisture detection instrument. Further, stains were visible on the underside of the soffits with the seller reporting that the soffit stains were caused by dirty gutters. However, the roof sheathing under the shingles above the soffits was found to be wet confirming roof leakage.
Identifying active roof leakage can be very difficult depending on weather conditions. As a result, I believe such language in any real estate contract that requires roof leakage to be confirmed for negotiation is a dangerous game.
Hi Steven -- If something is visual, it should be factored into the offer price, even though the exact condition may not be known. A home inspector is a very critical piece of the puzzle to ensure a buyer knows they they are actually buying.
It is funny how that works. I have had clients that were worried about relatively minor issues when there are some much more important issues they should be concerned with.
I know sometimes everyone realizes the roof is shot, but they want to know if they might be able to get one or two more years out of it. I haven't seen very many roof where you couldn't squeeze another year out of it, although I do let them know that the roof is vulnerable to sudden failure.
The comment by Ralph Brady really rings true. I have had times where the whole house was being devoured by anobiid beetles and the client was more concerned about the ding in the wall as a result of a missing door stop. People are strange, but often just do not know what they are getting into.
What about the numerous situations when the home inspector overeggaterates the problem due to it being out of his/her area of expertise? A home inspector scared the buyers on one of my listings regarding hairline cracks in a home. They almost backed out. We had to get the original builder, another 3rd party, and the buyer's agent called for a specialist to come out an look at the home. The Stucco specialist indicated that it was normal and not a problem. It became obvoius that the home inspector did not know much about stucco, and was really just covering himself rather than keeping the buyers informed. Good thing the buyer's agent brough in an expert on this.
Well, Steven, Lenn's right. In our repair contingency, each item must be working in the manner for which it is intended. So the roof may look bad but if it works ie: keeps out the rain, then I guess the seller can not be compelled to fix it. Obviously, that roof needs to be replaced but it could still meet the letter of the law.
First, Realtors should pave the way for the inspector. In a situation like this we have to say we either need to up the amount for repairs, or if you would rather pay cash then let's factor it into the offer. The difficult ones are of course the borderline cases, and we also need to realize that we are licensed Realtors not licensed inspectors. I will tell you that some listing Realtors in my area will still be mad at you for stating the obvious. These are the professional inspector haters. I wonder if that has to do with a commissioin being the most important objective?
All good comment above. I really like Richard Weisser's the best. Yes, the roof does seperate the outside from the inside. Ha
Patricia/Seacoast NH
Hi Steve, Good post as usual. I just want to comment on Marian's comment. It isn't about the letter of the law or compelling someone to do something. It is about a realistic assesment of the condition of the roof. If the roof is past its useful life it needs replacing. Who replaces it is about negotiation between the parties. The buyer may also decide it isn't worth buying also.
I find the same thing. Sometimes people just need a "professional" to tell them what they already know. Do you think the purple floral wallpaper in the foyer needs to go?
Deena makes a great point. It reminds me of when spouses say something to the other person and it's ignored, but then a friend says the same thing and it becomes wisdom.
Steve, good points----I have seen lots of roofs that absolutely need replacement----that did not leak.
Yikes, not just the roof, how about the crud in the gutters. Good post.
Steven, I think the buyer just wanted to soften the news blow for himself. I think you were gentle with him.
I usually find the buyer need the inspector to back up the obvious to get the seller to make the repairs.
I'm sure there are many times you find the not so obvious, that's what the inspection is really for.
The roof is often one of the biggest concerns for buyers as it can be expensive. However, often it's apparent when the roof has outlived its utility.
I think preparing a client for what an inspector will do makes sense.
Regarding the various comments that indicate that anything less than a leak does not justify replacing the roof, I agree with David. Whether or not a roof leaks is NOT the best way to determine whether it is shot or not. For example, a newer roof that has suffered damage from a tree branch in the wind might leak. Does it need replaced because it leaks? Probably not! Repair will probably allow it to last another 20 years. On the other hand a roof that has had a zillion repairs, has leaked in the past, and is held together with bailing wire and moss is in dire straights whether it is leaking or not at the time of the inspection.
The other issue I have is that an inspector must go by the condition. We are often inspecting in hot dry weather so, unless past staining is apparent, we do not know if it will leak or not. But if it looks bad, then it just might leak so we have to tell the buyer that. I can tell you, as an inspector, that our clients would not be happy with us if we said the roof was okay, if it looked like the one in the photo, and then when the winds picked up and the rains came the flood came down. That sounds like bad press or even a lawsuit to me.
As an inspector I will never demand the seller replace a roof or repair a roof. I will report the status of the roof and the buyer can ask to have it fixed, eat the problem, or walk away. At least the state of the roof is on record and on the table. Around here many realtors, and I do not know the intricacies of their contingencies, negotiate significant roof repairs, at the least, when a roof has serious problems. Other times I have seen seller and buyer split the cost. And other times I have seen people take the house with the roof as it was, based on a good price on the house.
Geoff,
Sounds like you had a bad inspector. Inspectors also come in all shapes, sizes, attitudes and competencies. If I do not know the severity of a problem, I try to find out prior to reporting.
I think most buyers want to know they are not buying a home with hidden defects and thus we have home inspectors.
I have always been surprised that in the realm of the agent and the negotiation a roof must leak to be replaced. Davids comment and yours (#34) are right on target. It's about an inspector reporting on present conditions and making recommendations. Ultimately it is up to the buyer, seller and the agents to work out the details.